Jeff Sample:  

On this week’s show discussing capital project management with Andy Varone from Contruent.

All right, we’re back. Y’all might notice it’s a little different. There’s just two of us today. That’s right. Andy was brave enough to sit down with me and have a conversation. Before we do that, just say hi. How are we doing, Andy?

Andy Verone:

Jeff, thanks for having me. I’m excited to do this with you.

Jeff Sample:

Yeah, I’m excited. I love it when a guest is willing to get outside of the box. Before we get outside of the box and dive into something I want to learn a lot more about, we’ve got to pause for the cause.

Brent Darnell:

Construction, in general, is a highly stressful environment, and you see the stress, and you always get the “I’m fine” answer. But always try to dig a little deeper because people say, “I haven’t been sleeping great, and I’m really eating crappy food, and I feel anxious, I feel depressed.” We’ll start to really get into those conversations and figure out what’s going on. There are some great resources. If you go to brentdarnell.com/resources, first, there’s an emotional intelligence and physical symptoms survey test. So, we get your emotional profile and your physical profile based on physical symptoms, and we tell how your body’s working, and then we can correlate those two.

And if you’re experiencing burnout, it will probably show up in both of those evaluations. It’s free. You just download it, do it, and see where you are. Burnout is the top two or three that pop up there. I would pay attention and start to really look at what you are doing with stress, nutrition, sleep, exercise, and daily reflection—those kinds of things that we know we need to do to keep us healthy, sane, and on track.

Jeff Sample:

You’ve got to check in with where you are; you’ve got to work on balancing. It’s not about the diagnosis; it’s about preventing people from getting too far down the road. Like most of our construction folks who listen in, they take care of their cars, they keep them up to date—this is no different. You’ve got to put in the maintenance on the body and the mind. Because you’re racing this car around the track, right? We’re not going to change that. We’re a bunch of race cars out there. But we can change that we do the right maintenance, take the right time, and really check in.

Brent Darnell:

One more resource in there is the tough guy’s survival kit, guy being gender-neutral. It’s specifically written, geared toward more field folks. But there’s a really great chapter on stress management and peak performance in there. It talks about meditation techniques, mindfulness techniques, and breathing techniques.

Jeff Sample:

Alright, we’re back. So, when I say this is going to be an interesting episode, I mean it. I met Andy a little while ago, and we started talking about something I wanted to learn more about. So I hope you guys are ready to take a ride with just the two of us today. We’re going to sit down, and we’re going to learn a little bit about Andy’s background, of course, because you have to know where people are coming from. But also, importantly, we’re going to dig into capital project management and project controls. And what does that mean? I couldn’t think of anybody better to bring in than Andy for this one. So Andy, say hi to everybody, give them a little bit of an idea. You’re not new to the business.

Andy Verone:

Jeff, I appreciate it. Thanks for being kind. So as Jeff knows, this past September marked my 40th year in engineering, construction, and technology. If you smashed that all together, it goes deep back into my roots, as in working for an engineering firm right out of college and having the opportunity to play a lot of roles at that firm. At the end of that career, after 25 years in the industry, I actually had the opportunity to be CIO for the company. So, I have a deep engineering and construction background, which goes well beyond just my experience; my dad and grandfather were both in the industry. I consider myself third-generation. It’s really fun to bring tech into that industry.

Jeff Sample:

I was going to say it’s kind of interesting because you’re talking about a third generation. And usually, when we’re talking to third-generation, there is something new to the experience. So I feel like tech might have been an interesting part. Go back to those days being an engineer and some of the things you experienced. And then, why tech? Why end up as a CIO when you are an engineer instead of continuing to stamp and do things like that?

Andy Verone:

Yeah, Jeff, it’s a great question. It was a really great career, working in the industry and having the opportunity to work on projects all over the world. There was always a mess. We seemed to be willing to invest in technologies, but we also created a lot of data silos. I think the organizations that I had the opportunity to be CIO at knew there was more. There was more out of the data they were generating, and they understood the value of that data. I think a lot of engineering and construction companies want to put someone in the role who actually has the experience. It was just a great combination of having the industry experience and really having an eye on the prize. And that was the data. What was the value behind the data that the companies were generating?

Jeff Sample:

And those were two large firms, publicly traded companies. So, what were some of the insights? What was some of the power from that data? Maybe you can help people? Because we hear that a lot, right? Like the power is in the data, data is the new oil, and you’re like, okay, what am I doing with it? Am I greasing up an engine? Am I turning it into gasoline and putting it in a car? So? What were some of the tangible things that in those engineering firms you were able to do with data?

Andy Verone:

Yeah, I think the first thing was to unlock the data and put the data in the hands of the people that needed it the most. Whether it was a contract administrator, a procurement person, or someone doing the billing on a big project, giving them access to that data, letting them see the data as early as possible, drove profitability for the company. If we were able to be more proactive in managing that cost data, that payment data, it made a big difference. If we were able to decrease day sales outstanding by a few days by giving that access, and having that workflow, having that data in a workflow that multiple people could react to and act on at the same time, was very critical. Thinking back to the years I was the CIO, the early 2000s probably up to about 2010. The cloud was just coming into play and distributed systems and collaboration systems. But back in the day, it was about how that data helped the company be more profitable.

Jeff Sample:

I think it is to this day. And it’s interesting, some of the folks have been touting the cloud and distributed services and collaborative platforms as the way to unlock the data. Like it wasn’t unlockable before. But I challenge there’s some folks that it doesn’t really matter what the systems are. They don’t understand what they’re trying to unlock, and why they’re trying to unlock it. I rarely hear when I sit down with somebody that “I want a contract admin,” “I want somebody in payment processing,” “I want those people that have access today.” It’s always, and I love my field folks, and I love my fabricators and thinkers. But this is blocking and tackling that I think is missed a lot as part of making a big difference. So, I think a lot of people are sitting on the wings waiting for the cloud to unlock everything. It’s like, no, this is a strategy. And I’m kind of interested in some of the strategies, or at least the change in that strategy before, not before cloud, but that I think is separate of cloud. It’s really a strategy. What are some of the strategies that kind of went through your head, especially seeing as you went up through the ranks and experienced it?

Andy Verone: 

Yeah, it’s a great question. And I think for me, it was first, and if I wish I had a picture I can share with you, we had to kind of map the process. And that process was from the time the individual was hired into the organization, through the retirement of that person, and the equipment and everything that individual had possession of. So mapping out that process and understanding those key points where data intersected with the process were critical. And listen, we spent probably over a year mapping out those processes as his processes that then led to a best practice. How could the technology then lay over the top of the as his process to bring alerts, workflows, and information? Listen, there was no cloud back in 2000. When I started this journey. We were hosted. We didn’t want to own servers and do all that heavy lifting. So we had some hosting providers, but at the time, it was more about how to unlock the process. That would then illuminate the data is really, really critical.

Jeff Sample: 

Yeah, it’s so overlooked, you know. There’s so much talk about the flashy things and the flashy tech. It’s why I got involved in construction. I loved watching robots and cool reality capture and laser scanning and all of that, but as I got deeper and deeper into it, it became apparent that people believe there’s an overnight success. There’s no such thing. It’s just not that you can’t employ any technology and fix a problem that you don’t understand. And to hear that it took a year for you guys to map that out is actually fantastic to me. It had to take a lot of discipline not to try to fix while you’re trying to analyze. I think so many people set out to do a process map. A, they want it to be a day. And B, they can’t stop themselves from trying to fix something that they yet don’t understand.

Andy Verone:  

And I think, to your point, Jeff, some early wins are helpful. So even if I think back to the mapping process, what I challenged my team to do was if there are some low-hanging fruits that we could fix in the current systems without having to invest in spending money on new technologies. Let’s go do that. And by the way, that actually gave the team credibility. So, we asked for a lot of business users. It wasn’t just IT. It was people that manage projects, manage contracts, manage procurement. We asked for a lot of their time. So in this process, giving them something that they can bring back to their stakeholder groups, to say, hey, we’re working on something much bigger, but we’re going to fix a few things on the way is critical.

I think being a CIO in an engineering construction company today was a lot different than when I did that in the mid-2000s. There are over 4,000 software providers that market themselves as engineering and construction tech. It’s overwhelming. And I happen to be part of one of those software companies today. And to me, you can point-solution yourself right into an even bigger data problem than I had to deal with many years ago.

Jeff Sample:  

Yeah. And, oh man, we can have a whole episode on point-solutioning yourself to death. And I was reading a Built Worlds article this morning just about the frustration with that, etc. And I’m like, it’s a maturation process. We have to realize there was a problem, and we got something done. And oh, wait, by the way, we’ve created a silo. Now we need to connect that into a workflow. But you can’t know any of that unless you map the process. 

And the last part about that mapping the process that I heard that I want to make sure people listening here is you started with the person, and you started with hiring. And I’ve had a couple of chances to sit down and work with people. And it’s amazing that they’ll talk about an accounting system or an estimating system. And you’ll ask, okay, how do you get paid time off? How do you get your pay stubs? They’re like, oh, it gets dropped in a folder here. And they go here, and they grab this, or they get a PDF. And they do. And I’m like, this is an experience for your employee. And we always talk about saving five minutes saves some money on the bottom line, but actually saving five minutes of an employee’s day so that they can focus on what they love to do and what they’re great at. And the other things can be easy. 

I got one of these things. I can check my paycheck, I can request my paid time off, I can know things from here. And that’s an experience that’s part of understanding your technology stack, but more your customers’ experience. And as a CIO, your customers are all the employees of the company.

Andy Verone:  

No, that’s a great point. I wish I had some of the modern technologies today. Because at the end of the day, if you don’t have that easy, convenient customer experience, listen it makes the change management aspect of a major transformational project really, really hard. And I think about what we can do, even today, working for a small company. I can look at my personal data and my payroll data and request time off all with just a few clicks of a button. So, I would love that type of technology when we were trying to build that into screens before there was a lot of mobility.

Jeff Sample:

I remember creating kiosks back in the day, as many places as I could, just because we couldn’t do it, but we knew it was a thing. I’m with you. I’m like, Man, if I could have all the… and now there’s a million of them. Now there are a million of them. So I’m with you.

Andy Verone:  

Then you put on top of that, you got shifts. You got labor, you’ve got unusual work patterns. We had crews that did 14 days off, 14 days on, 7 days off. I mean, again, it’s just back to that experience is important.

Jeff Sample:  

Yeah, and getting everybody paid on time. Again, it’s just one of those things. It’s the little death by a thousand cuts that make them go and make them go to another company too. We have to be honest about this, we’re in a labor shortage in some respects. And, it’s really about making sure that experience from somebody soup to nuts is the best thing it can be because then they want to stay.

And I had never even thought about if you look at this, my change management bucket is this bottle. And if I’m dealing with this much of it in finding my PTO, and finding my paychecks, and finding the things I need to do, then I’ve got a lot less for change in my job. If all that’s good, I’ve got more in the tank for other changes, other ones that are going to impact the overall company more, which, obviously, at some point, you decided, hey, I’ve done this engineering thing. I’ve done the CIO thing. I see this software thing. I’m gonna go make that jump. So talk a little bit about making that jump and what got you to where we are today. It’s a pretty… I mean, I’ve come across some of your technology and experiences along the way myself. So, this is a fun ride.

Andy Verone:  

Yeah, it was a scary time of my career, it was one of those things where I worked for an Australian-based company that was growing in North America. So I had the opportunity to be the CIO for North America for a Sydney, Australia-based company. And we did a lot of acquiring, and it was a great ride, and really enjoyed my time there. But then an opportunity came up to join Oracle, and be an industry leader for a large software company. And, as I was thinking through that process of how do I take my past experience in the industry, plus my CIO capabilities? And how do I translate that into a major tech player? It was, let’s just say it was risky. It was risky, and probably the best word I can use. But what an amazing ride. I mean, I spent just under 15 years working at Oracle in many, many roles. Probably six or eight different roles that I played. Had an opportunity to be part of some big acquisition strategies for Oracle.

Had the opportunity, Jeff, as you know, helped co-found the innovation lab in Chicago, Sydney, and Reading UK. And it was just a great ride. It was taking the knowledge that I brought with me, and applying that to the technology that was driving the industry. So it was really a match made in heaven, and I have really no desire to ever go back into the industry. 

I think the tech world, again, needs to be grounded in what the industry really needs. And how do we stitch the data together? So everyone’s getting value. Listen, there’s not a construction company, engineering company in the world that’s not sitting on an incredible amount of data, schedule data, cost data, performance data, and helping those customers unlock that is critical.

Jeff Sample:  

I’m with you. I made the jump as well, although I’m not sure I’m done with industry, I’ll be honest. There’s always that twinge to want to go back. Because I liked the maturation process. And I’m a big fan of that fluid movement out of industry into technology and back. But then there are those that maybe you did your fair share the time before. And so now you’re balancing it out as we balance those scales. I want to cover two things before I get to where you are today. One, what were some of the guiding trends at Oracle with acquisition, with creation, that just drove strategy that way that you were getting ahead? And did you guys feel like you guys made some big achievements there along that road? Is the first one, and I’ll come to the second one in a minute.

Andy Verone:  

Yeah, I think the fundamental strategy that Oracle has to this day is when they go out and acquire a company like Primavera Systems, right? World standard on critical path method scheduling, they keep that acquisition standalone, they don’t bring it in and integrate it with the rest of the product set. So a global business unit is formed, and the identity of that acquisition stays intact. It’s a really strong strategy. So you have your own development team, you have your own sales team, your marketing team, and that GPU normally is born through an acquisition and keeping that intellectual property and keeping those teams together that build something incredibly special is important. Then, phase two is what do you need to build on top of that base acquisition? So Oracle, Primavera’s, P6, fantastic for scheduling. What can we surround that with going forward? So really great strategy for a company strategy that’s still in place today.

Jeff Sample (Ad):  

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Jeff Sample:  

Yeah, I love it. I love it. And then finally, what in the world were you guys thinking with this innovation lab thing? And, man, thanks for building it. I’ll just take it right there. So what were you thinking? What I mean that had to be some interesting moments of discussion.

Andy Verone:  

Really, it was, and I’ll put that in the top three projects that I’ve worked on over the 40 years. It was an incredible experience, and really satisfying to build something that the industry could absolutely use. And that was a key design criterion. We didn’t want to demo construction software in conference rooms. I mean, so the very first design element was, let’s build something that simulates a worksite. It’s hard to get on worksites. It’s hard, especially for software people to get on worksites. So we went and built an environment for our customers, our partners, which you know a few, and for us to go and engage in solving a problem. Simulated worksites, solving a construction problem that you normally wouldn’t be able to do on site. We started outside. We wanted to make it as real as possible.

And Jeff, you know winters in Chicago are really, really hard. So at some point, we decided we probably needed a roof over our head. And we got much more than that. So yeah, it really was like, how do we become believable? How do we make this real, bringing together partners? A lot of those partners were hardware providers, bring those partners together, bring our technology together and demonstrate through an experience, what it could do, what value it could add for our customer base, and the ecosystem itself, not just our customers. What can we do to change an industry?

By the way, another key design element, how do we get vocational tech students, not college kids. Kids that are deciding to go into the trades? How do we bring them in and show them how cool construction tech is? So for me, that was a personal goal for me.

Jeff Sample:  

That’s huge. And how do we show their parents that, like Oracle, has invested this much money in a lab? So, that should show a parent that this is a huge industry with huge possibilities. I laugh because I remember Burcin back in the day and him having to suffer outdoors. And then you guys had built a little trailer that he would do his little live broadcasts from, and I was like, this is a great way to make us podcasters and tech people suffer some of the elements like the real job site does. And also, it’s funny because one of my friends asked why they are building a job site. We’ve got job sites everywhere. And I was like, have you met me? No one lets me onto a job site without a lot of high vis, and all my stuff’s clean. So as soon as I step on, everybody’s like, watch where that guy goes. Let’s be honest, we got to be careful about that.

Andy Verone:  

So, in the trailer, I mean, back to design elements, we wanted to make the trailer absolutely life-like. It had sawhorses with a piece of plywood. It had very uncomfortable chairs. But what I will tell you is when we got out of conference rooms, and we got people in an element that they were used to, the conversations were priceless because they didn’t feel like looking in through the glass window of a conference room, they were in, they were in their element. A superintendent was in his element. It was brilliant.

Jeff Sample:  

Yeah. I love that because it put the shoe on the other foot, and the technology people got uncomfortable. And that’s a great space where a customer can be comfortable. You can be the one uncomfortable, allows for a good flow of information. So you’ve come to somewhere new. So you had a new plan. So and this is why I wanted you really here. Your timing was fantastic to talk about this because you’ve moved on to Contruent, capital project management and project controls. But a very specific so why did you make the jump? And then let’s get into what’s this big problem you’re tackling today? Because it seems like throughout your career, that’s been sort of the path?

Andy Verone:  

Yes, it was just a perfect opportunity. And Jeff, if I think back over the years we have solved many big problems in the industry. But one thing we haven’t standardized on is project controls and cost controls. And I always think in my head, if Contruent could be the project controls, data environment for cost like P6 is for schedule, we’ve got something. So as I help customers around the world work on mega projects, there really isn’t a standard for costing. There’s a lot of different solutions. There are a lot of different approaches. I believe that in this industry, there’s still an incredible amount of room to standardize cost engineering and project control. So, the single goal is to grow the company. I spend every day either through cell cycles or opportunities like this to spend with you just kind of evangelizing the importance of project controls.

We work on mega projects, right? It’s in mining projects, energy projects, utility projects, oil and gas projects. If it’s not in the hundreds of millions, then our solution is probably not a great fit.

Jeff Sample:  

Yeah, so very specific. But talk to me a little bit about defining what cost controls for that kind of a project means in capital project management, from a cost perspective. Because I know people listening and especially for me, it was hard to understand what goes into it. Why would we need an entire system for this? And what does this standardization even mean?

Andy Verone:  

So for me, it really starts with if you have cost and schedule integration on your projects, where you’re bringing those two elements together. You’re bringing the WBS and the resource breakdown structure from the schedule into your cost control accounts. Now, you have a marriage of what’s being planned versus what I’m spending. So, at the very basic, at the very bottom of the solution, it’s how do I build visibility on both cost and scope. So integrating those, and it’s something we do on every project, we integrate costs and schedule.

But going down deeper, it’s truly understanding those control accounts that the cost engineer spends an enormous amount of time building right as they’re bidding for the project. Having that visibility down to the control account to say what is going to be spent on what and when, right, is really critical. So fundamentally, when we think about and we work with our cost engineers on projects, it’s giving them the comfort of knowing that you have broken down and shown the exact structure that they need to manage that cost through procurement, through change. Through overruns. Maybe we need to go through. How do we manage an RFI and RFQ? System does all that. But again, it’s giving the granularity on traditional project management. I mean, when it comes right down to adjustments, is how do I go deep enough in the cost breakdown structure that everyone knows where that money is moving? And that cost is moving?

Jeff Sample:  

So you said we need a single language? And we don’t have that? When you guys come across a customer or potential customer, what are some of the hurdles to understanding that process? And learning why it’s needed. I mean, I think for me, with every software and every change, it’s about why. So, what are some of those hurdles?

Andy Verone:  

Yeah, I think I’ll give you a really great example. So, Contruent has been around for 25 years. 18 months ago, we rebranded the company. It used to be ARES Prism. A lot of people in cost engineering and project controls know ARES, been around a long time. We build a ton of best practices in and we’re faster to deliver. So here’s the issue. We’ve spent the time and the money in building reports and building best practices for control accounts and CBS and all the things that make a project control system go. Where it gets hard is there’s no standard. So Company A might look at our solution, say I can put that on a project as is. And we can be up and running in two or three months. Company B may say that’s not how I manage my project. That’s not how I would break the cost down. That’s not how I would set up the control accounts. We’re fine with that. To us, that’s just another variation of what we need to do. But just like scheduling, by its heart, you’re hard-pressed to find a CPM scheduling that looks the same, even if we’re doing vertical construction, do it differently.

Andy Verone:  

So I think where we see more consistency is in the UK; for example, there is a lot more maturity in the UK around standardization of cost and schedule. In other parts of the world, it’s not as mature. So, we embrace it. If you like what we’ve done, and we’ve taken our 25 years of experience and built it into the product, you can get up and running on your mega project within a couple of months. Great. If you need customization or configuration, we can do that as well. But there’s, you know this, Jeff, there’s not a ton of standardization in the data, which takes us full circle. It’s hard to get value out of data that doesn’t have standardization.

Jeff Sample:  

It really is. It comes down to valid, consistent data that can give you good insight. I’m interested in what in the UK? I mean, I know a few things about the difference in the way that the UK operates, even on the mega project level, is it some of the things around the way they quantity survey? Is it some of the things around the way they operate that allows them to be better and more advanced in that area?

Andy Verone:  

I think if you start at the top, and you think about the color of money and the way funding is on infrastructure projects, so in the UK, we’re working for HS2, we’re working for London Underground, AWE, lots of infrastructure, and defense. But the owner sets the standard. And in the US. And somewhere, I’ve done a lot of water projects. How many owners are actually mandating what that data structure should be? What tools should you use? Is Earned Value required or not required? 

So at the very top, it really comes down to the owners, the owners who own the money, building the asset, are saying you shall follow this standard, the biggest difference in my opinion, but I think that mandate that we want to see reporting in this fashion, we want this report generated every other week, every two weeks every month is a big help. It’s a big help for those infrastructure projects.

Jeff Sample:  

Yeah, it’s a big help. And nobody likes being told what to do. But I go back to like dealing with my own kids; you got to give them structure. If you give them the structure, you can let them perform at their highest. And so by mandating and laying down those requirements, you’re actually giving those companies room to grow into and perform better because now all of a sudden they’re, I’d say kind of forced, but encouraged to see the data and make changes on it.

Andy Verone:  

And I think the key is that it’s the data. It’s not the tool. A lot of times, people get caught up in that. If they can provide the way they want the data structured, then everyone has an opportunity to be successful. It’s a tool provider, the systems out there to me when I go into an opportunity, and I know that there’s going to be some guidance and guardrails on the tool, that’s where we shine, I mean, we’ve got the opportunity to meet those requirements and have a great chance to actually win the work.

Jeff Sample:  

Yeah, so where someone has come to you with a really good process workflow, a good understanding of how they deliver projects, and what they want out of their cost controls, and maybe kind of where they are on how they do that bidding and work breakdown structure and resource breakdown structures, etc., and bring them together. Now you have a shot to really do something with it. And I think, interestingly, Contruent is really focused on mega projects, like you said, 100 million or more. So there are a lot of other opportunities out there for people to learn. 

And I think I’d be interested to pull that since most of my listeners are living in that construction world. What can they pull out of this mega project controls, mega projects, capital project management that they can take a nugget away for themselves, and what could they do better? Because again, they are gonna go look, hey, who’s the Contruent for the little guy, for the smaller project, I want to call it little he sees an amazing we call, 50, 60, 70, 80, 100 million dollar project is like a little project. We’re talking hundreds of millions, billions now. So, what are some of the things those people can take away?

Andy Verone:  

I think as we finish out our SaaS capabilities. So one of the big lifts when M33 Growth, the private equity, invested in ARES Prism, and now rebranded Contruent is giving all customers an opportunity to use the solution. So it’s not a big heavy lift.

So we find that when a project hits a certain amount, the importance of having that project controls and cost engineering, the stakes are raised. And that’s why on some of the biggest projects in the world, you see the rigor behind project controls. That’s not to say that that can’t be transplanted into a vertical construction project of 80 million. There’s not saying we can’t do that. So I think there are a lot of great lessons that we’ve seen, and we have built into our best practices that anyone can use. But in my history, when the stakes are so high, and the schedule and the cost are so important. A 1% slip is a huge number, you’ve got to have a backend system that’s tying not only what’s happening on the project on a daily basis but also tying back to the ERP from a billing perspective. So, it doesn’t really matter how big the project is. I think there are techniques in project controls that everybody can use. 

Interestingly enough, I’ll give you a real-world example. In the last three months, I’ve been on more calls with general contractors in the US that are building robust project controls units. It’s amazing. In fact, I was working with one of my business development reps, and he’s like, hey, Andy, we’d like you to come on this call. It’s with a GC. And remember, we don’t really spend a lot of time with the GCs. The first question I asked this group was, why are you now really starting to evangelize and invest in project controls? And they said our projects are more complex than ever before. And they were expanding into an area that they’d never done before. And to me, it was perfect. So Jeff, to your point, like I said, and we were happy to say, hey, here’s our best practices. As you guys build out, your processes to professionalize your project controls organization. Let us be part of that journey. So with that, I think it’s coming. I mean, just think about how important and how complex projects are becoming anywhere in the world.

Jeff Sample:  

Yeah, that was why when I said we met at the right time, that’s exactly what I wanted to hear because I’m hearing more and more about project controls in the industry. And it’s nice to hear it tied to some things we’ve been preaching. Projects are getting more and more complex. There’s just no two ways about it. Owners are getting more advanced. The buildings that we’re building, whether they’re vertical, whether you’re talking mining, whether you’re talking about horizontal and even roadways, etc., are just getting more and more complex. And the cost of money is higher these days. So, the cost of an issue. And it’s not, it’s not like it used to be, labor issues are what they are, we can’t throw labor at problems anymore. We really have to be ahead.

And then I love this one because everybody’s worried about 2024. Is it the recession? We didn’t get it in 2023 completely. Are we going to go? And what’s construction gonna be? And it’s like, oh, well, these indexes are down. And these are up. It’s like, yeah, there’s kind of an ebb and flow. And what you’re going to need to do is diversify. But the first thing as a technology person, when I say we want to diversify, I think about the level of control and visibility we need. How many companies, and you may or may not have had this experience, but I’ve watched companies diversify, whether that’s location, they go to a new part of the country. They’re caught off guard, or they’re not watching as closely because they didn’t realize that they manage a lot of their projects, costs, schedules, and issues by walking around in their offices by touching people. Right there. So now, locationally, they’re way more important for controls. Or, and we’re seeing this more and more with the complexity, you got JVs, right joint ventures going out, and you’re going into a new, you’ve got labor, and maybe your markets down a little bit. So you’re going to combine with another company to go keep working, keep making money, but it’s something new to you. This is a risk.

Andy Verone:  

Yeah, for me. I mean, I’m spending most of my waking hours in the US infrastructure market. Because as we see these delivery teams for wonderful projects like the Gordie Howe bridge, we’ve got some high-speed rail now in the US. Super fun, right? You think about the big work that’s been planned from Las Vegas to LA, the Desert Express. There’s that component of how does Contruent become the cost engine for these mega projects in the US? So it’s coming. And I think it’s the color of the money from the infrastructure bill. We’re seeing that now turn into real projects. And I think our timing is perfect. I want Contruent to be the cost engine for infrastructure projects in the US. Not to mention, the day doesn’t go by that a wind farm doesn’t call me a solar farm. By the way, battery. I mean, these battery plants, data centers, all over the world. I mean, it’s, listen, my dad, my grandfather, my earliest memories of sitting around the table was my dad and my grandfather talking about I don’t have enough labor and the materials not on site. 40 years later, 50 years later, 60 years later, it doesn’t change. It was a bit of brute force back then. But it was the same problem of, oh, what’s the economy? What are commodity prices? My dad and my grandpa had the same conversations a few years ago.

Jeff Sample:  

Yeah, the conversations don’t change; they just get a little bigger, they get a little different; the ways we solve them get a little bit more interesting and more complex. So that’s the reason for needing things like this. So, man, I want to thank you so much for taking the time, Andy, to sit down. Let people know where they can go learn a little bit more about Contruent and maybe a little bit more about what you guys are up to.

Andy Verone:  

Yeah, so guys, Jeff, first of all, thank you, I really enjoyed it. And I love the work you’re doing. You often say that every project seems to be a one-off. And you’re right. There’s a lot of complexity. But there’s also a lot of pride. When you’re building a project, whatever that may be in whatever vertical industry, there’s the ownership and the pride of that project. And you want to make a difference. So that’s the world we live in. We just have to adapt to it.

So please visit our website, www.contruent.com. Find me on LinkedIn. Love to engage with you as your user and your community goes and captures more complex project controls processes throughout their work. So, Jeff, I really appreciate it, thank you, man.

Jeff Sample:  

Hey, I appreciate it. And I think 2024 is the year of talking project control. So I expect to see you out there. And I’m with you. I mean, we do say that every project is a snowflake. I think more and more of it should be repeatable, from systems to technology to work breakdown structures, etc. But that’s never going to change that the outcome is always something unique and beautiful that all of us can look back at. That’s why you’re three generations in, I’m a first generation into the industry, and I may go back and forth from technology to construction, but this is my vertical this is where I live now because, hey, I’ve said this a lot of times, where else do you really impact the world around you so much as what we do here in the built world. So, yeah.

Andy Verone:  

For sure. Appreciate working with you, Jeff. Thank you, buddy.

Jeff Sample:  

It’s great to work with you. I appreciate you coming on the show. And I just want to thank Andy for joining us today. Thank you for tuning in today to geek out for our interview with Andy Verone. To read all our news stories, to learn more about our guests, and to listen to this show, visit the ConTech Crew. This is the ConTech Crew signing out. Until next time, enjoy the ride and geek out.