True Talks
Breaking Silos: Empowering Workers, Sharing Knowledge, and Advancing ConTech

Andy Verone 0:04
I’m so excited to be joined by Jeff Sample.
Jeff, welcome to the show.

Jeffrey Sample 0:12
Andy, thanks for having me.
It’s great to sit down and talk. I’m, I’m excited.

Andy Verone 0:17
Glad you’re excited about it and I know where we live in the in the world. We’re both trying to stay warm these days with some some pretty low temperatures.
Jeff, we, we do have a global audience.
Why don’t you spend just a couple minutes introducing yourself properly?
Tell tell the audience who you are and what you’ve been doing.

Jeffrey Sample 0:34
Awesome, Jeff.
Sample we are.
I have a new appreciation for HVAC.
I had a technician here yesterday, so it’s one of those environments.
You don’t.
You don’t think about till you have them and I think that kind of dovetails into why I’m here as a career.
So I’m about a 30 year technologist.
I’m an IT architect by trade.
I used to build infrastructure and hardware for to run companies and I got involved at the.
Sort of corporate level and learned a lot.
Spend a little bit of time consulting and then got into software development and figured out that my two worlds had collided. And I love how software is built.
I love what it and technology can do for companies and bringing them together was key.
But about 10 years ago, I found myself without a role, looking for something, a new challenge.
And I found a masonry contractor here in Vail, Co.
That builds custom homes and.
They asked me to come in and be there it director and I found this incredible world of the built world and the people that build the world around us that fix our furnaces that build our homes, that craft our roads and bridges.
And I fell in love with it, Andy.
And so about 10 years ago.
I spent a few years with the Mason and still good friends with them and.
My friends, their IT director so hired my replacement, went out to learn more about the industry, spent time consulting with JB knowledge with general contractors, trade contractors.
And then I got on this little show called the contact crew and been doing that ever since.
So I’m the host of the contact crew.
Now I’m an independent contractor.
I spent quite a few years doing a couple of different things.
In startups and I’m kind of in between now during my doing my own thing.
So this is what I like is now I get to sit down and kind of had an opinion on on technology and construction without anyone around me and it you know Andy, you’ve been on the show and and in there we discussed that like I’ve had the Lu.
Of learning trade contractors G Cs, the last product I was with.
Our clients client was owners and engineers and spent some time now over the last year with.
Material suppliers.
So I kind of have this really strange circular view of our world now.

Andy Verone 3:10
Jeff, we, we appreciate your your background and your experience and and truly appreciate your point of view and and look, I look forward to coming back on to your show as well.
Jeff, thanks.
Let’s jump right in. If we’re going to look ahead into 2025, here we are the 22nd of January.
What are some of those construction trends that get you fired up?

Jeffrey Sample 3:35
OK.
So I I think we’re at the precipice.
I really do.
I’ve been watching and and traveling around the country for the last 10 years and there’s a distinct difference today than there was when we first started. When we first started this, there was a lot of education about what might exist.
And you know it slowly moved to not what might exist, but how might we use it now, hey?
How we’re using it? What can we do with it in the future? And I feel like those are all coming together now.
We’ve got great data sets, we’ve got great solid software, but we also have evolved our process.
We’ve realized that technology isn’t here like anybody who tells you that you know their goal is to disrupt an industry, then they have the wrong target, right?
Disruption is a byproduct, not a goal.
And I think the industry has realized the opportunity and we’ve got these people that have spent the last four or five years maturing into it.
And we also have a boom, I mean it.
It’s interesting ’cause. I’m trying not to say the the buzzword right now that’s on everybody’s mind, and I’m sure you know what it is. But what we see from that is the by product is all the data centers that we need built.
All the EV factories that we need built all the chip factories that we need built. The amount of mega projects that we have going in the United States right now and globally.
Is. I don’t think we’ve ever seen it before.
I mean, you were talking, you know, we used to talk hundreds of millions, then billions, and now we’re talking multiple billions for some of these projects. And I I think that’s a huge opportunity.

Andy Verone 5:29
No, it’s amazing, man.
Yeah, I mean, I referenced before we started recording it, you know the big announcement, you know that came across for our US audience was a $500 billion venture for data centers that are going to be built throughout the United States to host.
AI.
So fantastic, Jeff, let’s.

Jeffrey Sample 5:51
Well, it’s fun.
It’s funny you say that because I. I mean, I’ll talk to, you know, a construction owner.
I’ll talk to somebody in the business and you know, like well and by the way, I’m very in the middle on AI. Everything has to go through a hype curve.
AI is far more than just what you see on the surface.
Or talk about there’s computer vision, there’s natural language processing. There’s large language models. There’s all sorts of things that are at different phases.
So but if you wanna look for the Canary in the coal mine, it’s exactly what you’re talking about.
How much money is being invested and how many data centers are being built?
Somebody says, well, I don’t this.
I think this is a fad.
Well, you know, you’re building data centers that say that’s not the case.

Andy Verone 6:39
Exactly. Let let’s double click on that for just a second.
So let’s park the AII mean we can talk about that, you know, forever and and and I love your. Your description of it. Right AI. Especially a construction. It’s it’s how do you capture progress all the way through. You know. How do you how do you use 20.
Years of of great data that your organization maybe have, you know, collected.
But what are some of the construction tech?
Impacts that you see from a technology standpoint, Jeff?
What are some of the technologies are gonna impact construction in 2025?

Jeffrey Sample 7:15
Well, I’m going to.
I’m going to go to computer vision, continuing to evolve and and really deliver.
That’s something that’s been out for a while and is really starting to.
Move forward but I and when I say that, I also wanted to come along. Computer vision come along with reality capture with this idea of not only understanding what we virtually built when we’re designing it.
But where we are in the process and truly understanding our progress and then learning and adjusting to it.
I think the more time we can spend.
Preventing or knowing where we are and preventing rework is a it’s a huge opportunity and I think you know really with reality capture, but also.
Things like gisi think you know we we understand that that they have that.
Buildings happen and data centers happen in space and time, but we rarely understand.
Where on a map where they are and as these mega projects happen, and quite frankly any project I don’t want to to suede people away because I think prefabrication and off site are a huge component of our ability to continue to deliver these projects.
But owners?
Have for so long, you know, really relied on seeing it.
You know, if I can see it, I’ll pay for it.
Well, I can’t see it in a prefab facility.
I can’t see it in off site, but actually with reality capture and with GIS I can.
I can start to understand not only what’s been done, but where it’s done and where I am in the process.
I also think.
The push when it comes to you know how many people we need.
For these projects and the innovation that that is creating.
An opportunity is also in tech.
I think there’s a technology component.
And.
I’d I again, I I don’t want to pigeonhole.
I think in our industry we pigeonhole technology too much to some sort of software tool.
There’s all sorts of new technologies. If you look at the tool builders out there. If you look at the new companies that are building types of robotics, we’re at that phase where we can utilize these in ways that we couldn’t before to keep us safer and more product.

Andy Verone 9:55
Yeah, for sure.
Listen, I you know, you and I talked about this a bit on your show. I mean, the the use of technology in the broader sense for the AEC industry goes back many, many, many years, right?
So this is my 40th year in the business and we were using software to help design bridges and to help design the the water flow capabilities and and hydrology models.
This industry is so not tech averse. We’ve used technology forever, and by the way, the advers comes from risk.
You’re trying to manage risk right on on projects. So I love that, Jeff.
I think I think you’re right on.
And and by the way, I think the future is super bright.
For for tech in this industry, Jeff, let me let me let me pivot just a minute here.
What are some of your passions?
Right. We always get into technology conversations.
What industries are moving the market?
What? What gets you a passion?
What gets you up in the morning, you’re super passionate about in this industry?

Jeffrey Sample 10:58
I’m super passionate, have been from the beginning that we can give time back to the valuable people that we’re invisible to me until I join this industry.
Really the the HVAC, the plumbing and piping and and the welding and the Masons and all the folks that make these wonderful buildings come to fruition.
The steel fabricators that do such great intense work that make.
All of it possible for us. We’ve spent too long, especially in the early days of tech, making their jobs harder, and I honestly think with the evolution and the understanding and the maturity of the models themselves, when it comes to software and it comes to process and it.
Comes to implementation.
We’re at a point where we can give people time back in their day and we can focus them more on what they’re doing and they can derive more value.
And more time.
On tools, which is what they’re passionate about, one of the things that got me when I first got into the industry was how much time.
They were spending just giving us the information we wanted and and really it hadn’t changed from paper to digital.
We were just saying, OK, lose the clipboard and type it for me. We weren’t saying we can save you time, and that’s where I think the innovation that’s available can capture their day.
We can use national natural language processing in large language models for them to speak to this to the, to the technology, and so at the end of their day it’s wrapped up. It’s done.
They’ve done all of their risk mitigation.
They’ve done all their documentation and they’ve spent more time on the tools, building more and getting more out of it. And I think we’re at that precipice where we can do that and.
That opportunity gets me out of bed everyday.
And I think the final one too is.
The built environment is making millionaires out of people who are putting in work and.
We’ve always touted other industries as the place to be, you know, and.
I’m really excited that we can say no construction. The AEC world is the place to be.
And being on the construction side or being on the trade side is not some secondary step.
It’s actually a critical component and it’s a incredible opportunity.

Andy Verone 13:39
No, it’s critical.
It’s, you know, we talk about, you know, the US coming back and being stronger than ever.
But it it is on the backs of the people that are in the trades and you know the the sooner that we start to evangelize about the importance of the trades. And I had the opportunity to mentor folks in our local union here outside of Pittsburgh in many.
Of the trades and and making that.
Exciting and by the way, Jeff.
Utilizing technology in those trades makes it cool again.
And that that’s it’s not just swinging a hammer, it’s not just working hard and being, but it’s the tech that’s driving individuals back into the labor.
The labor pool, it’s really excited and technology is playing a huge part of that for sure.

Jeffrey Sample 14:27
Yeah, it is. In this next generation cares a lot about impact and what a better place to make sustainable impacts on the world around you than what we do in this world because you get to pick your place that you want to be.
Do you care about housing?
We we’ve got.
We’ve got contractors all across the country that are building multifamily that are building affordable housing. They’re looking for new innovations and ways to do it better.
Are you excited about?
Manufacturing and robotics.
Well, we’re building EV plants.
We’re building semiconductor plants where they need technicians that work on the robotics that run those, but we also need those buildings to be built first, right?
There’s so much opportunity.
Do you care about carbon and carbon footprint?
We’re a huge problem, but honestly, we just realized how to sort of measure that.
Now we have ways to make huge impacts on the mixes and other things that we use, the materials that we use. So do you care about that?
Then come on into the environment, cause it’s a place for you.

Andy Verone 15:36
Yeah, car carbon tracking is one of the key tenants of of our product that we’re really happy about.
By the way, other other regions in the world driving us to have better carbon tracking and and carbon management.
So really great points, Jeff, in the spirit of true talks, I’m going to.
I’m going to challenge you a bit here.
Give me a truth on AI in 2025 and just love to hear your point of view.

Jeffrey Sample 16:02
A truth on it.

Andy Verone 16:04
The truth.
What’s give me a truth?
What lot of big expectations?
Lot of incredible hype, a lot of great capability.
There’s no question but give give me a truth on where you see, you know, AI in 2025.

Jeffrey Sample 16:18
Well, I went out on a limb last year in 2024 and nobody said it yet, but I called it the year of information.
But I also said that AI would drive a company to make really bad decisions.
And a truth about AI is, unless you have an enormously well-rounded data set and an understanding if you have those 20 years and it’s all consumable, then great.
But if you’ve only been gathering it from certain pockets of your business.
It’s not going to tell you the truth. It’s just going to tell you what it has, and that could severely guide you in the wrong direction.
Now another truth about it is it can help you do certain things really, really, really fast.
And that’s awesome.
Except the other day we had this conversation is a lot of what it can do and does well. Andy is the things that are mundane.
Your e-mail. It can do. You know, everybody’s loving this.
I can just look at a summary of my e-mail now and see what’s important and and respond to what’s important, and I can get back to the hard stuff.
The problem is, that’s putting a whole new tax on the level of effort of work. See throughout a day you’ll go into phases of, you know, flow, work and really hard, thoughtful stuff.
That’s really taxing your brain.
Then you’ll take some time off.
You’ll read some emails. You’ll some slack messages.
Is, you know, maybe catch up on a few things and then dig back in if you don’t have those breaks, you gonna have to watch your knowledge workers a lot more closely.
The people who use AI on a regular I believe in 2025 are going to be way more susceptible to burnout.
Because of the demands and the taxes that they’re gonna put on themselves around the fact that they have more time.
To work on the heavy stuff.

Andy Verone 18:19
I know mental health and construction and and tech is something that you’re also very passionate about. And I think what you just said there is something that really needs to be managed, right.
Because you’re you’re going to spend your entire day working on the really hard problem. So just double click on that for us for a minute.
But I think that’s really important.

Jeffrey Sample 18:39
So you’re absolutely right.
I’m a huge proponent of mental health.
I’ve had my own struggles with it.
We all do.
We don’t talk about it enough, you know, and I and I think now is the time to talk about it. But on the same token, Andy, I’m gonna be the one that says, you know, work life balance is kind of a falsity.
It really, truly doesn’t exist because I can’t work from 2:50 every day.
It’s not gonna work out. And some days I’m gonna have a ton more to do at work and others I’m gonna wanna spend that time.
Time with my family. So it’s not about a balance as much as it is a give and take and understanding where your people are and what they’re doing.
The cool part is the last two years I’ve had the opportunity to work with a bunch of people about how do you really prevent burnout in high performers and the cool thing is it’s about play.
It’s about bringing fun.
Yeah, it’s a 3 letter word, not a four.
And it’s not an acronym.
It’s truly fun back into work.
I’m a huge Duncan Wardle fan. If you guys don’t know Duncan Wardle from Disney, you got to check him out. But.
I’ve really become passionate about being able to bring space and Createspace for your high performing teams.
To enjoy themselves, to have a little fun to play games of types, to tinker with things and.
What’s funny?
Is it?
It rejuvenates them. And so there’s a huge opportunity to prevent burnout.
First thing is you got to admit it’s gonna happen.
And it’s probably happening to the person you’re promoting the most, right?
The person who continues to deliver and you give them more and more.
Eventually it’ll be too much.
So don’t wait for that.
Try to find ways to bring it in ahead of time and.
You know, it’s also.
Hello by the way how you solve the biggest problems you know? Duncan asks.
This all the time and I’ll ask your listeners right now.
You know, close your eyes and think of the place that you come up with your best ideas.
And I’m gonna guess now it’s the shower. It’s the bike. It’s out for a walk.
It’s not at work, and that’s the key is our best ideas come when we’re focused and using our entire brain.

Andy Verone 21:05
Yeah.

Jeffrey Sample 21:14
And so it’s it’s a huge opportunity and.
Look, we have more mega projects than we’ve ever had, fewer labour than we’ve ever had, and we’re losing them more and more.
And they’re asking more and more of us what a better time and place to find innovation and to come up with the next big idea.

Andy Verone 21:33
Incredible insights, Biden.
Appreciate you sharing that.
I know that’s important to you. So thank you for that Jeff.
I wouldn’t think it’d be right if if I didn’t give you a chance to be the host on my show. If you wanted to throw me up a question, please don’t hesitate to to ask me a question as well as we kind of wrap things up here.

Jeffrey Sample 21:51
Well, I love this.
You know, I’ve I’ve had you on my show and you know quite clearly. So you guys know I had Andy on because what you guys do at Contruent was something I only heard about when I was out with my last job and kind of working in that world.
So I’ll ask you, you know, coming up in 2025, you know from your perspective and the and the clients you work with.
What do you see as the biggest change?
The biggest need, the biggest thing that.
That G, Cs and trade contractors can be thinking about in 2025.

Andy Verone 22:27
Yeah. For for me it’s solving for complexity.
It’s there’s not an opportunity that we don’t chase from a owner perspective from a you know any customer, right?
It could be.
In mining, it could be.
In infrastructure, it can be in oil and gas, solving for complexity, and for us, Jeff it, it’s about bringing that very detailed lifecycle cost management bringing that out so they can make informed decisions. And by the way impacts everything cash flow.
Labor materials and for us, it’s amazing. In my 40 years of in this business.
The complexity of what we’re trying to build is amazing, and the size and the scale.
So for us, we wake up every day and we’re in a really exciting point.
You know, we last year it was scale up.
That was our our company motto, right?
We were going to scale account. We put in a lot of great processes and systems and then this year it’s escaping.
The lift off right?
We are in flight and and by doing the good work that we’ve done.
Is allowing us to help customers. If I look at our portfolio of customer, some of the largest projects in the world are using our solution.
So we’re super excited.
Had a really great growth trajectory, but to answer your question, it’s just helping them solve for complexity. Our little piece of that is giving them that visibility on cost and schedule so they can make those decisions.
Appreciate the part.

Jeffrey Sample 23:55
Which yeah, I know which I really like and I wanna. I wanna dig into that just for one more quick second because there is this fear in our world of sharing that information.
And and not addressing the complexity of just how many, how many different companies it takes to build a project. But what would you say to a trade contractor or GC about how important it is to share that information at the at the earliest times?

Andy Verone 24:25
It’s a requirement, right, Jeff, I think for you know, for either being an owner’s Rep or being the owner itself, the days of them not having that visibility, in my opinion those days are over, right. So at the end of the day you, you might be in.
In the project with competitors all around you, if everyone’s sharing that data, which is now a requirement, listen all the big programs that we’re working on. The very first question is.
The owner or the owner’s Rep kind of mandates the fact that everyone shares.
Yeah, the life cycle of cost, which includes change includes all the pieces of cost and you just got to give it. And by the way, it’s not a competitive advantage anymore, right.
I mean, back in the day, I can’t.
I can’t remember like your rates.
You know, everybody’s rates. They were sacred, by the way. Everyone’s rates are about to say.

Jeffrey Sample 25:14
Everyone’s rates are about the same and in all honesty, there’s so much complexity on that owner side and we only know so much.
And actually sharing that data creates A level of trust, and that trust is what builds relationships for the long term.
So thanks for answering my question and let me turn in a hot seat on you.

Andy Verone 25:31
Yeah, I appreciate it, Jeff.
Great, great question. And I think it is something that we care about every day at contruent.
Jeff, listen, I try to keep these to about 30 minutes keeping everybody’s, you know, like you said back to everybody’s day being super busy.
Just thank you.
Thank you from the bottom of my heart, man.
I appreciate you coming on.
I appreciate what you do for the businesses that you serve and for the communities that you work in. And then my only request, Jeff, is please man share.
With your audience.
Keep the conversation going.
I mean, that’s what we try to do with these kind of launch into some you know some some good topics and then we try to keep that conversation going on various social channels. And Jeff, I appreciate that if you help us with that.

Jeffrey Sample 26:14
You got it.

Andy Verone 26:15
All right, Jeff.
Thank you very much and have a great 2025 and we’ll be talking soon. Thank you.

Jeffrey Sample 26:21
You got it, Andy. Thank you.